Comments on: We need to get less precious about the ‘rights’ of rural communities. http://thethirdestate.net/2009/07/we-need-to-get-less-precious-about-the-rights-of-rural-communities/ What Is The Third Estate? Everything. What Has It Been Until Now In The Political Order? Nothing. What Does It Want To Be? Something. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 23:39:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 By: jonathan colwill http://thethirdestate.net/2009/07/we-need-to-get-less-precious-about-the-rights-of-rural-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-2908 jonathan colwill Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:01:09 +0000 http://thethirdestate.net/?p=1205#comment-2908 we need to re-inhabit the highlands of scotland and also encourage immigration to the falkland islands we also need to stop or limit immigration into the uk and europe . without fossil fuels we wont be able to support a 70 million population in the uk and citys like london are bound to greatly shrink or disappear much like rome went from a city of 1 million people to a place with I think about 15,000 people and cows grazing in the forum . The future whether we like it or not will be far more local and rural. the idea of building more housing in the uk is plain madness we need less housing and less people to be able to survive . what we should do is encourage new housing if the people living in those houses are engaged in agriculture and if the houses are built with local materials . we will need to see a huge shift in employment back into agriculture as much more work will need to be done by hand again or using draught animals we need to re-inhabit the highlands of scotland and also encourage immigration to the falkland islands we also need to stop or limit immigration into the uk and europe .
without fossil fuels we wont be able to support a 70 million population in the uk and citys like london are bound to greatly shrink or disappear much like rome went from a city of 1 million people to a place with I think about 15,000 people and cows grazing in the forum .
The future whether we like it or not will be far more local and rural.
the idea of building more housing in the uk is plain madness we need less housing and less people to be able to survive .
what we should do is encourage new housing if the people living in those houses are engaged in agriculture and if the houses are built with local materials .
we will need to see a huge shift in employment back into agriculture as much more work will need to be done by hand again or using draught animals

]]> By: Reuben http://thethirdestate.net/2009/07/we-need-to-get-less-precious-about-the-rights-of-rural-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-2880 Reuben Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:13:09 +0000 http://thethirdestate.net/?p=1205#comment-2880 Jon, you make soem good points. On the question of house prices I am willing to defer to your expertise on the matter. In terms of the location I guess I see the eco towns as a second best option. I would absolutely be in favour of extending existing cities but from my understanding of current planning restrictions/greenbelt etc. that would be even more difficult. Jon, you make soem good points. On the question of house prices I am willing to defer to your expertise on the matter. In terms of the location I guess I see the eco towns as a second best option. I would absolutely be in favour of extending existing cities but from my understanding of current planning restrictions/greenbelt etc. that would be even more difficult.

]]> By: Jon Neale http://thethirdestate.net/2009/07/we-need-to-get-less-precious-about-the-rights-of-rural-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-2876 Jon Neale Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:10:47 +0000 http://thethirdestate.net/?p=1205#comment-2876 Reuben, I generally agree with what you are saying, however a couple of points. Firstly, the eco-towns are not that large and do not make a significant 'dent' in housing need. They are also unlikely to generate their own employment and so inabitants will probably have to travel elsewhere for work, which brings me to... Secondly, are they really in the right place? Ideally, you would want to build new settlements in places with excellent transport links, close to areas with employment opportunities. What we really need are sustainable urban extensions to successful cities (OXford, Cambridge for example). With good quality new train lines and other transport links. The eco-town guidance stated that they must be self-contained, separate settlements. This seems to me to be irrational in today's world. It meant, for example, that Birmingham could not propose an eco-town at the vast Longbridge site, crying out for redevelopment. I'd also question whether current prices are solely a result of supply issues. The two countries which have had similar rates of house price inflation to BRitain are hte US and Spain, which have undergone a massive building boom. The world has experienced a massive asset price bubble caused by the availability of debt. It's not as if Britain is the sole exception to this global phenomenon. Undersupply is an issue, but it's a long-term trend of a few percent - new developments, after all, form a very small % of any housing market and pricing is set in the second-hand market. Reuben,

I generally agree with what you are saying, however a couple of points.

Firstly, the eco-towns are not that large and do not make a significant ‘dent’ in housing need. They are also unlikely to generate their own employment and so inabitants will probably have to travel elsewhere for work, which brings me to…

Secondly, are they really in the right place? Ideally, you would want to build new settlements in places with excellent transport links, close to areas with employment opportunities.

What we really need are sustainable urban extensions to successful cities (OXford, Cambridge for example). With good quality new train lines and other transport links.

The eco-town guidance stated that they must be self-contained, separate settlements. This seems to me to be irrational in today’s world. It meant, for example, that Birmingham could not propose an eco-town at the vast Longbridge site, crying out for redevelopment.

I’d also question whether current prices are solely a result of supply issues. The two countries which have had similar rates of house price inflation to BRitain are hte US and Spain, which have undergone a massive building boom. The world has experienced a massive asset price bubble caused by the availability of debt. It’s not as if Britain is the sole exception to this global phenomenon.

Undersupply is an issue, but it’s a long-term trend of a few percent – new developments, after all, form a very small % of any housing market and pricing is set in the second-hand market.

]]> By: Reuben http://thethirdestate.net/2009/07/we-need-to-get-less-precious-about-the-rights-of-rural-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-2837 Reuben Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:00:04 +0000 http://thethirdestate.net/?p=1205#comment-2837 Very interesting. Blows out of the water the mysanthropic assumptions that nature does best when mankind does not engage withit, the viewpoint that attributes our species with the reverse midas touch. I certainly agree it would improve the quality of life for locals if they had more people - especially people interested in minority pursuits. The great thing about massive concentrations of people - like london - is that obscure, relatively unpopular forms of culture - from poetry nights to viking metal - are viable. In the accursed countryside this often isnt the case. Very interesting. Blows out of the water the mysanthropic assumptions that nature does best when mankind does not engage withit, the viewpoint that attributes our species with the reverse midas touch. I certainly agree it would improve the quality of life for locals if they had more people – especially people interested in minority pursuits. The great thing about massive concentrations of people – like london – is that obscure, relatively unpopular forms of culture – from poetry nights to viking metal – are viable. In the accursed countryside this often isnt the case.

]]> By: Sarah http://thethirdestate.net/2009/07/we-need-to-get-less-precious-about-the-rights-of-rural-communities/comment-page-1/#comment-2810 Sarah Sun, 19 Jul 2009 13:28:11 +0000 http://thethirdestate.net/?p=1205#comment-2810 People get so wrapped up in trying to be green that they forget to check whether what they're doing is actually having a positive impact on the environment. Stretching the topic slightly from ecotowns to agriculture, it's been shown that unintensive agriculturally managed land is actually more biodiverse than a similar sized "rural wilderness." This is partly the aim of the the Fens project in Cambridge. http://www.greatfen.org.uk/ Also, agree with your postscript point re development of rural villages - it could actually lead to an improved quality of life for locals. People get so wrapped up in trying to be green that they forget to check whether what they’re doing is actually having a positive impact on the environment. Stretching the topic slightly from ecotowns to agriculture, it’s been shown that unintensive agriculturally managed land is actually more biodiverse than a similar sized “rural wilderness.” This is partly the aim of the the Fens project in Cambridge.

http://www.greatfen.org.uk/

Also, agree with your postscript point re development of rural villages – it could actually lead to an improved quality of life for locals.

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