Comments on: Health Reforms and Civil Disorder in the USA http://thethirdestate.net/2009/08/health-reforms-and-civil-disorder-in-the-usa/ What Is The Third Estate? Everything. What Has It Been Until Now In The Political Order? Nothing. What Does It Want To Be? Something. Tue, 22 May 2012 04:47:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.1 By: Dan http://thethirdestate.net/2009/08/health-reforms-and-civil-disorder-in-the-usa/comment-page-1/#comment-3511 Dan Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:44:49 +0000 http://thethirdestate.net/?p=1549#comment-3511 JGW is right. The town hall meetings may give the impression of democracy and public debate, but it is in Congress that power resides, and the people are not invited - unlike the lobbyists for the health insurance industry. Unless they are forced to impose changes by campaigns outside of the main political structures, the Democrats (or, at the very least, their 'Blue Dog' minority) will inevitably bend to the will of their opponents, who are far more wealthy and powerful than the outraged Republicans shouting down their local Congressman from the back rows of town halls. Healthcare is literally a life and death issue; the people obstructing its reform must be treated as the malicious and greedy scum they are, no different than someone hoarding food from the starving. JGW is right. The town hall meetings may give the impression of democracy and public debate, but it is in Congress that power resides, and the people are not invited – unlike the lobbyists for the health insurance industry. Unless they are forced to impose changes by campaigns outside of the main political structures, the Democrats (or, at the very least, their ‘Blue Dog’ minority) will inevitably bend to the will of their opponents, who are far more wealthy and powerful than the outraged Republicans shouting down their local Congressman from the back rows of town halls. Healthcare is literally a life and death issue; the people obstructing its reform must be treated as the malicious and greedy scum they are, no different than someone hoarding food from the starving.

]]> By: Neuroskeptic http://thethirdestate.net/2009/08/health-reforms-and-civil-disorder-in-the-usa/comment-page-1/#comment-3506 Neuroskeptic Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:53:41 +0000 http://thethirdestate.net/?p=1549#comment-3506 "Up and down the country politicians are putting themselves before packed – and often hostile – public meetings to push their policy proposal. Impossible to imagine it happening here" Of course an anti-American cynic would point out that we don't need that here because we already have all the policies that American liberals want. “Up and down the country politicians are putting themselves before packed – and often hostile – public meetings to push their policy proposal. Impossible to imagine it happening here”

Of course an anti-American cynic would point out that we don’t need that here because we already have all the policies that American liberals want.

]]> By: Reuben http://thethirdestate.net/2009/08/health-reforms-and-civil-disorder-in-the-usa/comment-page-1/#comment-3503 Reuben Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:35:18 +0000 http://thethirdestate.net/?p=1549#comment-3503 Absolutely. Give me a choice between America's rough democracy - hicks and ugly republicans included - and our sanitized democracy, and I know which i would choose. Absolutely. Give me a choice between America’s rough democracy – hicks and ugly republicans included – and our sanitized democracy, and I know which i would choose.

]]> By: Jack http://thethirdestate.net/2009/08/health-reforms-and-civil-disorder-in-the-usa/comment-page-1/#comment-3501 Jack Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:24:00 +0000 http://thethirdestate.net/?p=1549#comment-3501 It would never happen here Reubs, and things like this are one of the reasons I deplore unthinking anti-Americanism. Everyone involved in pushing this proposal in person and in front of a live, unmanaged and often hostile/hickish congregation should be applauded. Here, it would simply be decreed from on high by some despicable, automaton New Labour shell of a human being. It would never happen here Reubs, and things like this are one of the reasons I deplore unthinking anti-Americanism. Everyone involved in pushing this proposal in person and in front of a live, unmanaged and often hostile/hickish congregation should be applauded. Here, it would simply be decreed from on high by some despicable, automaton New Labour shell of a human being.

]]> By: Reuben http://thethirdestate.net/2009/08/health-reforms-and-civil-disorder-in-the-usa/comment-page-1/#comment-3500 Reuben Mon, 10 Aug 2009 12:52:16 +0000 http://thethirdestate.net/?p=1549#comment-3500 Must say though, I am pretty impressed with some aspects of America's democracy. Up and down the country politicians are putting themselves before packed - and often hostile - public meetings to push their policy proposal. Impossible to imagine it happening here. http://tinyurl.com/l9xltd Must say though, I am pretty impressed with some aspects of America’s democracy. Up and down the country politicians are putting themselves before packed – and often hostile – public meetings to push their policy proposal. Impossible to imagine it happening here. http://tinyurl.com/l9xltd

]]> By: Jako http://thethirdestate.net/2009/08/health-reforms-and-civil-disorder-in-the-usa/comment-page-1/#comment-3499 Jako Mon, 10 Aug 2009 11:18:01 +0000 http://thethirdestate.net/?p=1549#comment-3499 "It’s not the American public that’s reacting, it’s big business." The reaction is spearheaded by big business, the Republican party, and right-wing shock jocks, but it is undeniable that a popular anti-reform movement has appeared that has a momentum of its own. Opponents of reform can't be dismissed as an out-of-touch elite. There appear to be significant numbers of Americans genuinely convinced that any reform of the US health system is going to hurt their interests. Whether it's false consciousness, fear of higher taxes, or simple conservative prejudice against a Democratic President I can't be sure. US trade unions and other parts of Obama's progressive coalition are organising counter-demonstrations in favour of reform. I don't see how salivating over the image of 44 American cities "going up in flames" is going to help the situation. “It’s not the American public that’s reacting, it’s big business.”

The reaction is spearheaded by big business, the Republican party, and right-wing shock jocks, but it is undeniable that a popular anti-reform movement has appeared that has a momentum of its own.

Opponents of reform can’t be dismissed as an out-of-touch elite. There appear to be significant numbers of Americans genuinely convinced that any reform of the US health system is going to hurt their interests. Whether it’s false consciousness, fear of higher taxes, or simple conservative prejudice against a Democratic President I can’t be sure.

US trade unions and other parts of Obama’s progressive coalition are organising counter-demonstrations in favour of reform.

I don’t see how salivating over the image of 44 American cities “going up in flames” is going to help the situation.

]]> By: Jack http://thethirdestate.net/2009/08/health-reforms-and-civil-disorder-in-the-usa/comment-page-1/#comment-3498 Jack Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:32:37 +0000 http://thethirdestate.net/?p=1549#comment-3498 JGW, good points-I don't think I made it clear enough that big business, in particular the cynically and euphemistically named 'healthcare industry'-who are fomenting this reaction. Also have to agree with your point regarding the need for an exogenous, powerful mass movement bringing irresistible pressure to bear on the unrepentant guardians of the status quo. At the moment, though, I'm unsure how such a consciousness could be created in any concrete sense... JGW, good points-I don’t think I made it clear enough that big business, in particular the cynically and euphemistically named ‘healthcare industry’-who are fomenting this reaction. Also have to agree with your point regarding the need for an exogenous, powerful mass movement bringing irresistible pressure to bear on the unrepentant guardians of the status quo. At the moment, though, I’m unsure how such a consciousness could be created in any concrete sense…

]]> By: JGW http://thethirdestate.net/2009/08/health-reforms-and-civil-disorder-in-the-usa/comment-page-1/#comment-3486 JGW Sun, 09 Aug 2009 19:14:36 +0000 http://thethirdestate.net/?p=1549#comment-3486 It's not the American public that's reacting, it's big business. Health insurance accounts for sixteen percent of US GDP, and any, however small, reform is going to make inroads into that. And unless the American left grasps that this is class struggle on the big scale - i.e on the scale of the Civil Rights movement - there is going to be no serious health-care reform. The problem with Obama's bill is that there is no mass movement outside of Congress bringing pressure to bear in favour of reform. Success is only going to come when the Sarah Palins fear that, if they don't allow reform,then 44 American cities will go up in flames (the number that were lit up the night they killed Martin Luther King). The issue is that important.The right know it. It's about time the left realised this too. It’s not the American public that’s reacting, it’s big business. Health insurance accounts for sixteen percent of US GDP, and any, however small, reform is going to make inroads into that. And unless the American left grasps that this is class struggle on the big scale – i.e on the scale of the Civil Rights movement – there is going to be no serious health-care reform. The problem with Obama’s bill is that there is no mass movement outside of Congress bringing pressure to bear in favour of reform. Success is only going to come when the Sarah Palins fear that, if they don’t allow reform,then 44 American cities will go up in flames (the number that were lit up the night they killed Martin Luther King). The issue is that important.The right know it. It’s about time the left realised this too.

]]> By: Salman Shaheen http://thethirdestate.net/2009/08/health-reforms-and-civil-disorder-in-the-usa/comment-page-1/#comment-3482 Salman Shaheen Sun, 09 Aug 2009 16:38:46 +0000 http://thethirdestate.net/?p=1549#comment-3482 Some really excellent points. I really am baffled by the reaction of the American public to this. If Obama's health care reform is socialist, Britain is the USSR. Some really excellent points. I really am baffled by the reaction of the American public to this. If Obama’s health care reform is socialist, Britain is the USSR.

]]>