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	<title>The Third Estate &#187; Caroline Lucas</title>
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		<title>Greens on the Up</title>
		<link>http://thethirdestate.net/2011/05/greens-on-the-up/</link>
		<comments>http://thethirdestate.net/2011/05/greens-on-the-up/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 May 2011 12:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Salman Shaheen</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Elections]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Green Party]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Brighton & Hove]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Caroline Lucas]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[election]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[greens]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thethirdestate.net/?p=6769</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When you&#8217;re a member of a small party to the left of Labour, elections rarely give you much to cheer. Thankfully, the Greens (in England at least) have provided a somewhat more positive narrative for those of us who believe the Labour party&#8217;s dominance over the progressive vote is a dangerous thing. Reading some of [...]]]></description>
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<p>When you&#8217;re a member of a small party to the left of Labour, elections rarely give you much to cheer. Thankfully, the Greens (in England at least) have provided a somewhat more positive narrative for those of us who believe the Labour party&#8217;s dominance over the progressive vote is a dangerous thing.</p>
<p>Reading some of the party material before the election, it sounded as though the Greens were bracing for a setback in Brighton &amp; Hove after Caroline Lucas&#8217;s breakthrough result, and losing council seats to a resurgent Labour party would have been very uncomfortable. Thankfully, they held all their seats and won ten more to become the largest party on the council.</p>
<p>Over at <a href="http://www.socialistunity.com/?p=8106">Socialist Unity</a>, Andy Player has some good analysis of the challenges the party will now face, and the hope that those to the left of Labour might see in a rising Green Party.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<blockquote><p>After defending 13 seats and winning 10 new ones, the Green party now has the largest group on Brighton &amp; Hove city council. The Tories dropped from 26 to 18, Labour remained on 13 and the Lib Dems were wiped off the map.</p>
<p>Following on from the remarkable General Election victory a year ago to the day, the Greens have made astonishing progress at a time when votes for smaller parties seems to be diminishing.</p>
<p>In many central Brighton seats the Greens had already replaced Labour as the progressive choice. The results in these wards were cemented by campaigning last year and large majorities increased on Thursday.</p>
<p>The push continued into the Labour suburbs with one seat being turned into three in Preston Park and two seats out of three taken in Hollingdean and Stanmer &#8211; with Labour deputy leader Pat Hawkes ousted.</p>
<p>Seats were taken from the Tories in previous Tory / Labour marginals like Goldsmid, but the shock results were in two ‘safe’ Tory wards – Central Hove and Withdean – where a Green candidate came from nowhere to top the poll.</p>
<p>The Greens’ relentless progress in Brighton &amp; Hove should be of enormous interest to those on the left who believe that electoral politics play a part in the fight for a better world.</p>
<p>The Green party won their first council seat in 1996, adding two, then another three, and then another six at subsequent elections, plus a first Hove councillor in a by-election the year before Caroline Lucas won in Brighton Pavilion.</p>
<p>One lesson for the left is that the Greens in Brighton &amp; Hove have achieved electoral success through consistent hard work. They have also built a significant layer of support amongst trade unionists and campaigners with their swift and unambiguous backing of the right causes.</p>
<p>The Greens in Brighton &amp; Hove have a reputation for being honest, active and progressive. That is a breath of fresh air for many voters in this city.</p>
<p>Hard work and the right principles are one thing, but the crucial factor in surviving the current electoral squeeze of smaller parties is that voters believe the Greens can win. After last year’s result, that belief has mushroomed.</p>
<p>The Green party have now replaced Labour in most of their traditional areas and have become the opposition party in most Tory wards. Are we seeing the crumbling of Labourism &#8211; the Holy Grail for left-of-Labour electoral parties?</p>
<p>Some big challenges face the Brighton &amp; Hove Green party councillors and the local party membership. The Green platform in these elections was to oppose cuts to services and to protect jobs. Taking over the council purse-strings in a time of savage cuts is not good timing for a progressive party, yet it is what the electorate demanded.</p>
<p>Tories, Labour and many on the left will be rubbing their hands and waiting for the new Green administration to ‘sell out’. To deliver on the local party’s manifesto is not going to be easy. But our local party has not got to where it is by being strategically naïve, vain or politically cowardly. We may have been handed the poisoned chalice, but no-one is forcing us to drink it.</p>
<p>“Vade retro Satana! Nunquam suade mihi vana! Sunt mala quae libas. Ipse venena bibas!” as Saint Benedict of Nursia once said.</p></blockquote>
<div id="crp_related"><h3>Related Posts:</h3><ul><li><a href="http://thethirdestate.net/2009/06/gains-for-the-greens/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Gains for the Greens?</a></li><li><a href="http://thethirdestate.net/2010/05/greens-unsure/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Greens unsure</a></li><li><a href="http://thethirdestate.net/2010/02/the-greens-are-a-left-wing-party/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">The Greens are a Left-Wing Party</a></li><li><a href="http://thethirdestate.net/2009/06/post-election-geekery/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Post-Election Geekery</a></li><li><a href="http://thethirdestate.net/2010/05/why-the-labour-party-should-pass-pr/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Why the Labour Party should pass PR</a></li></ul></div>
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		<title>An Interview with George Monbiot</title>
		<link>http://thethirdestate.net/2009/09/an-interview-with-george-monbiot/</link>
		<comments>http://thethirdestate.net/2009/09/an-interview-with-george-monbiot/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 07:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Salman Shaheen</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Capitalism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Democracy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Economy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Environment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Green Party]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Interviews]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Labour]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Alan Simpson]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[carbon emissions]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Caroline Lucas]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[George Monbiot]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Gordon Brown]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Guardian]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[interview]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Bolton]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Nuclear Power]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[oil]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[peak oil]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Plaid Cymru]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sian Berry]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[UN]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thethirdestate.net/?p=2210</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I’m a Guardian reader. Middle-class, well educated, long-haired and liberal, I don’t exactly dispel the stereotypes associated with the paper whose readers think they ought to run the country. Nor, as one of those lefty, anti-war, environmentalist types who grew up worrying about the state of the world, should it come as any surprise that [...]]]></description>
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<p><img class="alignright size-full wp-image-2212" title="George Monbiot" src="http://thethirdestate.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Monbiot.jpg" alt="George Monbiot" width="226" height="254" />I’m a <em>Guardian </em>reader. Middle-class, well educated, long-haired and liberal, I don’t exactly dispel the stereotypes associated with the paper whose readers think they ought to run the country. Nor, as one of those lefty, anti-war, environmentalist types who grew up worrying about the state of the world, should it come as any surprise that the <em>Guardian </em>columnist I’ve always had the most time for is <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/georgemonbiot">George Monbiot</a>. And with the state of the world looking more worrying than ever, in the midst of an economic crisis and on the verge of an environmental one, it’s only natural that the fifth in my series of interviews for <a href="http://thethirdestate.net/interviews/"><em>The Third Estate</em></a> should be with the man who made print journalism and saving the world seem an attractive career path to me. So, on the eve of the most crucial climate change conference the planet has ever seen, as world leaders struggle to implement a strategy to prevent global temperatures from rising more than 2C, I caught up with the author-activist to ask him for some happy news.</p>
<p>“The chances of preventing a two degrees rise in global temperatures are now pretty slight and diminishing rapidly,” Monbiot says in the way a schoolteacher might tell a naughty child who has just failed all his GCSEs that he has no one to blame but himself. I realise, at this point, that happy news isn’t looking very likely. “It’s partly because of a long period of inaction and denial and delay and obfuscation on the part of the world’s governments,” he tells me. The G8 finally pulled their heads out of the sand earlier this year to agree an 80% emissions cut by 2050. Is this not enough, I ask? “Not only is it not enough, it’s an irrelevant measure,” he says. “What counts is the cumulative emissions in the atmosphere. Simply because it’s so long-lived. We’ve produced so much greenhouse gas, that when you strip away the aerosols, like for instance sulphate pollution, which are shielding us from the full impact of the greenhouse effect, then it looks as if we’re already committed to two degrees of warming.”</p>
<p>So what’s the solution? “We need to reduce emissions as quickly as possible, never mind by 2050. We need a 10% cut in the coming year. And then a 10% cut in the following year. Otherwise the cumulative emissions will push us above two degrees and more without any question. The idea that the G8 nations can carry on producing an absurd amount of carbon and then bring down emissions later and bring down global temperatures later as a result, it simply does not work like that.”</p>
<p>Naturally enough, Monbiot is a supporter of the <a href="http://www.1010uk.org/">10:10 campaign</a> to bring about exactly the kind of cuts he is talking about. But is there a danger that, although the campaign will be grabbing headlines in 2010, it could go the way of <a href="http://www.makepovertyhistory.org/">Make Poverty History</a> by 2011? “Yes,” he laughs. “Maybe we’ll need an 11:11 campaign the following year. The purpose of it is to shame governments into acting, ideally at Copenhagen, by saying so many people have pledged to make this cut, the only people holding things up are governments.” I can see a glimmer of hope emerging at this point, but Monbiot is quick to dash it. “Ideally we’d see such a good result at Copenhagen that all the following years would be taken care of. As we know, in reality, that’s not what’s going to happen.”</p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><img class="aligncenter" title="Copenhagen" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/7f/COP15_Logo.svg/208px-COP15_Logo.svg.png" alt="" width="155" height="216" /></p>
<p style="text-align: left;">The Copenhagen <a href="http://en.cop15.dk/?gclid=CO3Y1LjUiZ0CFVtm4wodskbE3Q">United Nations Climate Change Conference</a> in December will bring together 183 nations to tackle arguably the most serious issue of our time. But with China and America together producing over 40% of global CO2 emissions, only two countries at the table will really matter. Are they on course to make the necessary commitments? “Of course not,” Monbiot says without a second’s hesitation. “Those countries are holding out against the kind of cuts that are necessary. If you look closely at the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Clean_Energy_and_Security_Act">Waxman-Markey Bill</a>, which the US hopes to found their cuts on, and which hasn’t even been gutted by the Senate yet, effectively it means that there will be no substantial cuts until 2050. By which time it’s all over. As for China, it’s both the greenest and the dirtiest country on Earth. Greenest because of its vast investment in alternative energy, but the dirtiest because of its vast investment in coal.”</p>
<p>China’s reluctance to implement a radical reduction in carbon emissions stems largely from the belief that it is Western nations that are responsible for the current climate crisis, and that they should not be denied the opportunities Europe and America have long enjoyed. Convincing the developed world to slash their emissions would seem, then, to be only the tip of a very rapidly melting iceberg as the rest of the developing world looks towards growth. I ask Monbiot how one can possibly convince some of the poorest nations on Earth that they cannot afford to follow the model of rapid industrialisation that lifted so many millions in the West out of extreme poverty. “I fully accept that the poorest nations need industrialisation,” Monbiot says. “We have to make it easy for them to do it without the mass pollution which accompanied our industrialisation. That means major investment in alternative energy, which has to be supported by the rich nations.” The best approach to this, Monbiot believes, is outlined by Oliver Tickell in the book <em><a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kyoto2-How-Manage-Global-Greenhouse/dp/1848130252/">Kyoto2</a></em>. “It’s a sophisticated cap and trade system. The huge amounts of money generated by putting a price on carbon emissions, probably somewhere between $1-3 trillion per year, could be used to sponsor alternative energy in poorer nations and to help them adapt to the inevitable impacts of climate change.”</p>
<p><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-2220" title="Peak Oil" src="http://thethirdestate.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Peak-Oil.jpg" alt="Peak Oil" width="221" height="208" /></p>
<p>George Monbiot’s concerns go much further than climate change, however. In his debate with <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2009/aug/17/environment-climate-change">Paul Kingsnorth</a>, who seems to embrace the coming apocalypse of resource depletion and environmental devastation with fatalistic satisfaction, Monbiot says: “for the past few years I have been almost professionally optimistic, exhorting people to keep fighting, knowing that to say there is no hope is to make it so.” But, I ask, does he in all honesty think that there’s still a chance to prevent the societal crisis that many Peak Oil theorists believe will result from the collapse of the resource that almost single-handedly drives the global economy? The answer to that is probably not. “As <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_L._Hirsch">Robert L. Hirsch</a> noted, you need a run up time of between ten and twenty years to substitute other forms of propulsive energy for the oil that’s running out. And if, as the IEA suggest, we’re looking at oil peaking between 2020 and 2030, we are already almost out of time to address this issue. If we leave it any longer, and no politician seems to be taking it seriously, then we are going to see total economic collapse.”</p>
<p>Monbiot’s hitherto professional optimism has been replaced by a brutal kind of candour. But surely there must be some positives in all of this? Could Peak Oil actually be a crucial driving force in convincing governments to replace fossil fuels with environmentally sustainable sources of energy? In the words of the nodding dog from the Churchill adverts, oh no, no, no! “Some of the measures that Hirsch proposed are even worse than using petroleum,” Monbiot says. “For example, he talks about using oil shale and tar sand and turning coal into liquid fuel, all of which are extremely polluting activities. Instead of addressing Peak Oil in a long-term, measured and environmentally friendly way, we could see governments panic and start exploiting every type of liquid fuel, no matter how destructive and damaging it might be.”</p>
<p>There are few, now, who would disagree that something urgent needs to be done. But worrying about the world is the easy part. It’s much harder to agree on a common solution. Chief amongst the thorny disagreements for even the most ardent of environmentalists, is the issue of nuclear power. In an interview with <em>The Third Estate</em> last week, <a href="http://thethirdestate.net/2009/09/an-interview-with-caroline-lucas/">Caroline Lucas</a> made her opposition quite clear when she told me “nuclear power is hugely costly, and carries major safety and security risks.” I ask George Monbiot, who was once awarded a United Nations Global 500 Award for outstanding environmental achievement by Nelson Mandela, what his position is now. “I don’t care anymore,” he says with all the blunt urgency the situation warrants. “I just want solutions. And as long as they can be delivered in the right timeframe, and as long as they’re not going to be particularly damaging to other aspects of the ecosystem, or to social justice and human rights, I don’t care what those solutions are. If nuclear power can be used safely, and if waste is disposed of safely, then I no longer have any major objection to it.”</p>
<p><img class="aligncenter" title="Sian Berry" src="http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Politics/Pix/pictures/2008/02/07/berry460.jpg" alt="" width="281" height="168" /></p>
<p>Unsurprisingly, Monbiot has come under fire from leading members of the <a href="http://www.greenparty.org.uk/">Green Party</a> for these views, not least from former London mayoral candidate Siân Berry, whose quite bizarre and surprisingly sexist <a href="http://sianberry.org.uk/blog/2009-11-03-womenvsalphamales.html">blog post</a> attacked his gender, his age and even his hairstyle, but offered very little explanation as to why she felt he was wrong, aside from the fact he looks like a WW2 fighter pilot. The headline on Monbiot’s damning response in <em>The Guardian</em> read <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2009/mar/18/nuclear-power-climate-change">‘Berry&#8217;s nuclear fallout has lost her my vote’</a>. I ask him if that’s really the case. “I was being flippant about that,” he says. “I did think it was a ridiculous post.” I laugh and can’t help agreeing with my interviewee. It was actually incredibly silly. “I don’t think I actually said that I wouldn’t vote Green anymore,” he points out. “The headline suggested that, but it’s not actually my position.” That said, Monbiot tells me that he has finally found his spiritual home. “It’s <a href="http://www.plaidcymru.org/content.php?lID=1">Plaid Cymru</a>,” he says. “I went to their conference this month and I was absolutely delighted by the positions they were taking on just about every issue and I felt that these were extremely sensible, switched on kinds of people who were trying to put into place many of the issues that I feel most concerned about.” Monbiot briefly supported <a href="http://www.therespectparty.net/">Respect </a>in 2004 in the hope that they could “forge a genuine red-green alliance.” When that turned out not to be possible, he pulled out. Now he says, “I have finally found the party that I feel very comfortable with. That’s not to say I feel uncomfortable with the Green Party, on the whole I support it, but I feel even more comfortable with Plaid.”</p>
<p>If there’s one person Monbiot definitely won’t be voting for, however, it’s Gordon Brown. In an <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/sep/07/financial-meltdown-gordon-brown-g20">article</a> earlier this month, Monbiot argued that Brown’s failure to regulate the banks at the G20 meant that no one this side of the Atlantic now bears as much responsibility for ensuring that the economic crisis can be repeated than the Prime Minister. But surely crises are inherent to capitalism anyway, and the idea of boom without bust was a delusion from the start? “Yes,” Monbiot agrees, “I believe that’s true. And I believe it’s the job of government to defend us from the predations of capitalism. And the government has singularly failed to do that. Government exists to defend its citizens from all sorts of threats, including the greed and ruthlessness of capitalists. Instead of doing that, it has encouraged the risk-taking that has thrown so many people out of work.” Monbiot believes that government has a choice. If they’re going to sustain the capitalist system, rather than any other kind of economy, then they have to regulate it in the interests of their citizens. “They’ve consistently failed to do this. In fact they have argued again and again for deregulation, even as the impact of this is plain for everyone to see.”</p>
<div class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 260px"><img title="Gordon Brown" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Gordon_Brown_Davos_2008_crop.jpg/405px-Gordon_Brown_Davos_2008_crop.jpg" alt="" width="250" height="367" /><p class="wp-caption-text">&quot;Labour has become a supine monoculture wholly committed to a neo-liberal, neo-conservative vision without a single radical cell in its collective body&quot;</p></div>
<p>Monbiot ends his article with the question: ‘why was Brown permitted to remain in power?’ But does he believe there’s anyone in the Labour Party who could successfully replace him before the next general election? “I think the problem is that all the feisty people in the Labour Party have been purged,” he says. “Through the selection of MPs, preventing any interesting and independent minded people from entering Parliament, and through the gradual freezing out of the older MPs, Labour has become a supine monoculture wholly committed to a neo-liberal, neo-conservative vision without a single radical cell in its collective body.” Monbiot’s voice never once betrays a hint of anger, but listening to him deconstruct the failings of a party that once called itself progressive, it’s not hard to picture the moment last year when he attempted a citizen&#8217;s arrest on the arch neo-con John Bolton. “There are no more Robin Hoods in the Labour Party,” he says. “Or rather those that are left, like Alan Simpson, are about to leave Parliament. The party has been so comprehensively purged that there are no means by which it can be renewed.”</p>
<p>Labour will be due another purge in next year’s general election. And with a Conservative government looking pretty close to a certainty, I ask Monbiot if things are likely to be markedly different. “A Tory government is going to be a disaster for Britain,” he replies. “It’s going to be disastrous for the poor, for the environment, for foreign policy, and it’s going to be just the same, in almost all respects, as a Labour government. In other words, the current disaster continued.” Monbiot’s distaste for the Conservatives could not be clearer. But could he ever see himself voting Labour to stop them getting in? “No,” he says. “As much as I dislike and am disgusted with the Tories, I think you have to vote for what you think is right. And if you cling onto something bad for fear of something worse, no one will end up with the government they want.”</p>
<p>Naturally, that begs the question, what is the alternative? With so much public hostility directed towards the bankers and the financial institutions that brought about the current crisis in capitalism, and following one of the greatest mass movements in history taking to the streets to oppose the invasion of Iraq, why, I ask Monbiot, is the left weaker than ever before? “I don’t know,” he says quite honestly. Then he laughs. “It’s interesting that you ask this, because it’s exactly the question I’ve been asking myself. I’m trying to get to the bottom of it at the moment. I think part of the problem is that we have nowhere to turn. The Labour Party was the focus of left-wing opposition when the Tories were in power, but it is as unconcerned about the issues as the Tories are now. I think also, we have been lulled and lulled in a constant void of television and celebrity and events that are peripheral to our lives, which seem to take centre place. And I think we have forgotten the lessons of history. But beyond that, I’m not sure what’s going on and I intend to try and find out.”</p>
<p>It is, perhaps, symptomatic of our confusing post-modern condition that even George Monbiot – Guardian columnist, bestselling author, hardened activist and forty something alpha male with a WW2 fighter pilot’s haircut – has no answer.</p>
<p>I ask him for some happy news.</p>
<p>But he just smiles and turns away.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.monbiot.com/">www.monbiot.com</a></p>
<div id="crp_related"><h3>Related Posts:</h3><ul><li><a href="http://thethirdestate.net/2009/10/monbiot-on-china/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Monbiot on China</a></li><li><a href="http://thethirdestate.net/2009/11/were-doomed/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">We&#8217;re Doomed</a></li><li><a href="http://thethirdestate.net/2009/11/copenhagen-history-is-watching/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Copenhagen: History is Watching</a></li><li><a href="http://thethirdestate.net/2009/09/brown-and-out/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Brown and Out</a></li><li><a href="http://thethirdestate.net/2009/09/the-truth-doesnt-always-win/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">The truth doesn&#8217;t always win</a></li></ul></div>
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		<title>An Interview with Caroline Lucas</title>
		<link>http://thethirdestate.net/2009/09/an-interview-with-caroline-lucas/</link>
		<comments>http://thethirdestate.net/2009/09/an-interview-with-caroline-lucas/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Salman Shaheen</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Elections]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Environment]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[European Union]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Green Party]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Interviews]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Racism/Fascism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Society]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Brighton]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[carbon emissions]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Caroline Lucas]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[co2]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[conferences]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[EU]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Europe]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gaia]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[greenhouse gasses]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[interview]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[James Lovelock]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[MEP]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[politics]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thethirdestate.net/?p=2146</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It’s that time of year again. The silly season has ended, Parliament is getting ready to return from recess and, with swine flu beginning to look like a fuss about not very much and the worst of the recession said to be over, the British media is beginning to turn its attention to the party [...]]]></description>
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<div class="topsy_widget_data topsy_theme_blue" style="float: right;margin-left: 0.75em; background: url(data:,%7B%20%22url%22%3A%20%22http%253A%252F%252Fthethirdestate.net%252F2009%252F09%252Fan-interview-with-caroline-lucas%252F%22%2C%20%22style%22%3A%20%22big%22%2C%20%22title%22%3A%20%22An%20Interview%20with%20Caroline%20Lucas%22%20%7D);"></div>
<p><img class="alignright size-medium wp-image-2150" title="Caroline Lucas 2" src="http://thethirdestate.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Caroline-Lucas-2-200x300.jpg" alt="Caroline Lucas 2" width="169" height="252" />It’s that time of year again. The silly season has ended, Parliament is getting ready to return from recess and, with swine flu beginning to look like a fuss about not very much and the worst of the recession said to be over, the British media is beginning to turn its attention to the party conferences. The buzzword this year is cuts. Labour, Tory and Lib Dem alike are at pains to explain how best to slash the country’s budget deficit, walking a tightrope of public expectations over a media circus. Against the fanfare and furore of the big three scrambling to shore up their support, however, there’s one party that often goes overlooked. On the back of their best results in twenty years, the Greens are on the rise and optimistic about their chances. Coming out of their last conference before next year’s general election, I caught up with their leader, <a href="http://www.carolinelucasmep.org.uk/">Caroline Lucas MEP</a>, and grilled her on the big issues, from the party’s future to their more controversial policies and just why she disagrees with James Lovelock.</p>
<p>“There was a very positive mood at conference, and there&#8217;s a great sense of determination within the party,” she says. “We’ve demonstrated pretty conclusively that in some places we can take on the big three.” Re-elected for a third term in the European Parliament in June, Caroline Lucas is widely tipped to be the Green Party’s best chance of winning a seat at the next general election and she now believes they are on the brink of a Westminster breakthrough.</p>
<p>But if the party has learnt anything in its long, hard slog to the spotlight, it’s that optimism is a double-edged sword. Similar predictions were made about a Green breakthrough in Brighton Pavilion in 2005, but despite a strong result, it never materialised. “We&#8217;ve made five years’ more progress on the ground since then,” Lucas tells me. “We came first in this year&#8217;s Euro-elections, not just in Pavilion, but across all three Brighton and Hove constituencies.” In Brighton Pavilion, the party now has the majority of the councillors and they won a majority of the votes in the most recent local elections. In the Goldsmid by-election in July, Alex Phillips’s convincing win stripped the Conservatives of overall control and tied the Greens with Labour as the second largest party on the council. “Basically, the Brighton Pavilion Green team is stronger than before, much more experienced, and very well organised.”</p>
<p>If Lucas’s predictions are anything to go by, she may not be sitting alone in the House of Commons next year. “It’s certainly possible that the next parliament could include two or even three Green MPs,” she says. “The party&#8217;s deputy leader, Adrian Ramsay, is leader of the opposition on Norwich City Council. The Greens hold a total of twenty city and county council seats there, where we held five last time around.” Norwich and Brighton are not the only areas the Greens are targeting however. “In Lewisham Deptford, our candidate, Darren Johnson, is currently the chair of the London Assembly, and he&#8217;s widely respected in London, not least in Lewisham, where he’s a borough councillor.” Five years ago, Lewisham Greens had only one councillor. Now they have six. “We have candidates who are leading Green politicians in their communities, with the experience and the vision to make effective MPs,” Lucas says.</p>
<p>Amidst mounting concerns over the economy and the environment, the party has seen a surge of support in recent years. But even with their share of the vote going up by 44%, more than any other party, the Greens failed to achieve their two basic goals at the European elections: to increase their number of MEPs and to stop the BNP. “Those goals were two sides of the same coin – in most cases, for the Greens to win the last seat in a region would serve the purpose of denying it to the BNP,” Lucas points out. “Of course it was extremely frustrating to get within about 1% of trebling our number of seats.” In the North West, where Nick Griffin scraped in by the skin of his teeth, the Green Party’s committed anti-racist campaigner, Peter Cranie, fell short by just 0.3% of the vote. “It&#8217;s hard to say what we could have done very differently, other than that more resources would almost certainly have enabled us to win seats in the East, North West, South West and Yorkshire and the Humber. But we gained 1,000 members during the six weeks of our campaign, which provides us with a great foundation for the next elections.”</p>
<p><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-2161" title="Green Party" src="http://thethirdestate.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Green-Party-285x300.jpg" alt="Green Party" width="243" height="255" /></p>
<p>It has often been said that the only thing holding the party back from mainstream success is the first-past-the-post electoral system. In an interview with The Third Estate just before the Greens gained over 1.3 million votes in the European elections, <a href="http://thethirdestate.net/2009/05/an-inteview-with-peter-tatchell/">Peter Tatchell</a> argued that under proportional representation, they could expect to gain as many as 40 MPs. I ask Lucas, whose support for electoral reform has always been as strong as her opposition to fascism, how she would answer those critics who argue that PR would bring about just as many BNP MPs. “If the BNP started winning seats under first-past-the post, would we suspend democracy to stop them getting elected?” she replies. “Of course not. I deplore their racism, ignorance and lies. However, I believe the best way to challenge them is to address the factors which drive individuals to vote for far right parties. If we treat the disease, the symptoms will go away.” Lucas argues that to exclude the BNP from the democratic process would be to set them up as martyrs who can claim the system refuses to deal honestly with the issues that concern their voters. “Some people vote BNP out of racism and intolerance. But probably far more vote for them out of a sense of serious disenchantment with the big three parties. There appears to be so little real difference now between Labour, the Conservatives and the Lib Dems, because they all talk the same and share the same core agenda. A lot of people feel let down by politics, feel their voice isn&#8217;t being heard, and some of those people will vote for an extremist party in protest. Inclusive, proportional elections would be one of the ways to help engage people in the political process.”</p>
<p>There was a time when the Greens themselves might have been considered an extremist party. An historic perception of them, the faintest traces of which persist to this day, is of  a single-issue party for beardy organic farmers and firebrand eco-warriors. “The Green Party has never been a single issue party!” argues Lucas. “We&#8217;ve always been a party of social justice, and believe that equity has to be at the heart of a sustainable society. We&#8217;ve also always made the case that the best way to protect the environment is to transform the goals and direction of the economy to make it genuinely sustainable.” Often, when the media has discussed party policy, it has tended to be linked to environmental stories. Lucas believes this is changing. “We finally seem to be succeeding in getting the media to pay more attention to our economic policies – for instance, with this year&#8217;s million-jobs manifesto, geared towards tackling the recession and the climate crisis at the same time. And I hope that in the run-up to the general election, the media will play its part in communicating the alternative political choices on offer, rather than just following the main three party leaders around. Then the differences between the Greens and the big three would become blindingly obvious.” Here that buzzword comes up again. Cuts. “While they talk about cutting services and tightening belts, we&#8217;ll be arguing for low-carbon investments that will create jobs, keep tax revenue coming in, and fund frontline services.”</p>
<p>One thing Lucas believes is helping them to better communicate their message is their decision to do away with the old system of a male and female principal speaker. Last year she was overwhelmingly voted the party’s first ever leader. “Most people like to be able to put a face to a political party,” she says. “So I believe that having a single leader with a clear, recognisable presence in the media allows us to communicate more effectively.”</p>
<p><img class="aligncenter" title="Caroline Lucas" src="http://thegreatwenda.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/portrait-caroline-beauty-love-wenda.jpg" alt="" width="253" height="378" /></p>
<p>After decades of fighting, the Green Party finally seems to be entering the mainstream. And after decades of dragging their heels, a consensus has emerged amongst world leaders that urgent action is required to tackle climate change. Does it encourage Lucas that the major parties are adopting increasingly environmentalist policies? “I&#8217;m not sure which has been more frustrating: the slow progress in this area, or the extent of the greenwash,” she says. “Yes, there&#8217;s now a consensus that we need to tackle climate change, and yes, the big three parties do go out of their way to appear green. But so much of this is rhetoric, and even now there is so much more that they should be doing.” Lucas points out that in 1997, Labour claimed to be the first green government, despite their weak climate targets and inadequate policies for meeting them. “Although some progress has been made, even now they still have the wrong targets and inadequate policies for meeting them, and they&#8217;re still building roads and expanding airports.”</p>
<p>The Greens have commendably been ahead of the times when it comes to scientific thinking on climate change. They were banging that bongo long before the band joined in. Some of the main criticisms of the party, however, have been for its broader scientific policy, most notably from <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/blog/2009/jun/01/european-elections-science-stem-cells-gm">Frank Swain and Martin Robbins</a> who kicked up a pre-election storm by taking the Greens to task on GM food, embryonic stem cell research and alternative medicine. “Just because the Greens are sceptical about some scientific developments doesn&#8217;t make us ‘anti-science,’” Lucas says. “I have yet to see any convincing evidence that GM crops are anything other than unnecessary and damaging – or that many of the forces behind them have anything other than morally dubious motivations.” But what about the argument that, in the right hands, GM can be used to tackle hunger for the poorest people in the world? “When will GM crops be ‘in the right hands’ if they&#8217;re developed to increase dependency on the multinationals who own the seed patents? The issue here is about control of the food chain. There&#8217;s tremendous potential for greater organic food production, and there&#8217;s plenty of evidence that ecologically designed agriculture systems, using permaculture principles for example, can significantly increase the productive capacity of the land.”</p>
<p>Evidence, however, is key to the criticism of Green policy. In a <a href="http://www.liberalconspiracy.org/2009/06/09/is-the-green-party-anti-science/">follow-up article</a>, Martin Robbins argues that in seeking to ban GM and embryonic stem cell research, the evidence necessary to ascertain safety can never be produced under a Green Party model. Robbins, who points out that the party believes experiments on human embryos could have harmful unforeseen outcomes, asks how you can ban something on the basis of unknown consequences, particularly when research into embryonic stem cells is vital for treating numerous conditions. I put the issue to Caroline Lucas, who has twice been named <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/observer-ethical-awards/gallery/observer-ethical-awards-2009?picture=348396981">Observer Ethical Politician of the Year</a>. “There are no easy answers,” she says. “Personally, I remain concerned about the associated health risks, the commodification of eggs and embryos, and the potential exploitation of women. Increasing research suggests that there are a number of promising alternatives, for example adult stem cell research, and umbilical cord stem cell research. These tell a growing number of success stories, without the problematic issues associated with embryonic stem cell research.”</p>
<p>The third criticism of the party’s scientific policy is its opposition to attempts to regulate alternative medicines. I ask Lucas if a more rigorous approach is needed to unproven remedies. “A balance must always be reached between the right of the individual to free choice, and the duty of society to protect us from the consequences of unwise choices,” she says. “I support the idea of a regulatory agency with responsibility for natural medicines, including nutritional supplements, medicinal plants and herbal remedies, essential oils and homeopathic remedies. I also believe that where people have found such remedies to work well for them, they should be given the freedom to continue taking them.”</p>
<p>If there’s one issue on which the Green Party has never been anything but utterly transparent, however, it’s the pressing need to save the planet from the worst human excesses. “The Green Party&#8217;s position is that we must adopt whatever targets are necessary to avert the worst consequences of climate change; to argue for these policies internationally and to lead by example. We believe that the current science demands a 90% UK reduction in greenhouse gases by 2030, with significant year-on-year cuts starting straight away.” Lucas is a strong enthusiast for the <a href="http://www.1010uk.org/">10:10 campaign</a>, launched earlier this month. “We believe there are huge spin-off benefits from emissions-reduction policies, ranging from much better public transport to warmer homes and a more stable economy, along with the creation of hundreds of thousands of new jobs. So a post carbon economy isn&#8217;t just possible, it&#8217;s highly desirable.”</p>
<p><img class="alignleft size-medium wp-image-2156" title="Lovelock" src="http://thethirdestate.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Lovelock-192x300.jpg" alt="Lovelock" width="185" height="287" />One area of contention within the party, however, is on the question of nuclear power. <a href="http://www.ecolo.org/media/articles/articles.in.english/love-indep-24-05-04.htm">James Lovelock</a>, author of the Gaia hypothesis, who points out that global warming is much further advanced than IPCC models and Stern have suggested, has come out in favour of nuclear power as the only green solution in the time we have left. “I find it sad and ironic that the UK, which leads the world in the quality of its Earth and climate scientists, rejects their warnings and advice, and prefers to listen to the Greens,” Lovelock argues. “But I am a Green and I entreat my friends in the movement to drop their wrongheaded objection to nuclear energy.” Wrongheaded or not, Caroline Lucas is not about to drop her objection to nuclear energy anytime soon. “Nuclear power simply won&#8217;t deliver big enough emission cuts, fast enough,” she says. “Even if we doubled the amount of nuclear in this country, we would only save about 8% in emissions reductions, and not until 2030 at the earliest. Nuclear is also hugely costly, and carries major safety and security risks.  The bottom line is that there are much cheaper, quicker, safer and more effective ways of making bigger reductions – energy efficiency, renewables, decentralised energy, combined heat and power, better public transport – the list goes on.”</p>
<p>Lucas agrees with Lovelock on one thing, however. “Climate change needs to be seen not just as an environmental issue, but as the greatest security threat that we face. We need to put the economy on something like a war footing, and introduce far more urgent action.”</p>
<p>Is it too late to save the world?</p>
<p>“No, I don’t believe that it’s too late, but we definitely need to be taking far more radical action than we currently are if we are to stave off the worst effects of climate change.”</p>
<p>If there’s one person who can convince us to take that action, it’s Caroline Lucas. <em>Parliament </em>magazine MEP of the Year in 2008, recipient of the RSPCA’s Michael Kay Award for outstanding contribution to European animal welfare, one of BBC Wildlife’s top conservationists, Vice President of the European Parliament’s Permanent Delegation to Palestine, and perhaps soon to be MP for Brighton Pavilion, Lucas is certainly hard at work. But if she succeeds, one thing’s for sure. The future’s bright. The future’s Green.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.greenparty.org.uk/">www.greenparty.org.uk</a></p>
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